Cassandra Vieten is a senior fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, as well as the Executive Director of the John W. Brick Foundation, and Scholar-in-Residence at the Arthur C. Clarke Center for Human Imagination at the University of California, San Diego. She is a psychologist, mind-body medicine researcher, author of numerous articles in scientific journals, and an internationally recognized keynote speaker. Cassandra came to Esalen to teach about the art and science of transformation. She is dedicated to helping others consider how peak experiences, extraordinary moments, and awe stimulate growth. Dr. Vieten lectures widely about the transformative potential of pain: how sometimes hitting bottom can help us shake free from periods of inertia. In this wide-ranging discussion, we also touched upon the importance of a holistic approach to psychotherapy, how to engage in productive argumentation in order to persuade others to change their consciousness, and how to create a realistic yet aspirational vision for the future.